The Black Dahlia Message Boards

[Don from Macomb, Illinois]

Dear Gang,
Who is planning on buying Steve's book? I intend to.

Agape,
Don

[Don from Macomb, Illinois]

Dear Bri,
Are you buying Steve's book this fall?

Agape,
Don

[Don from Macomb, Illinois]

Dear Impy,
Are you buying Steve's book this fall?

Agape,
Don

[Don from Macomb, Illinois]

Dear Caprice,
Are you buying Steve's book this fall?

Agape,
Don

[caprice06]

I have read Steve Hodel's book, found it be repetitive about how evil his George Hodel was, how he had the same view as Count Marquis DeSade. I have it checked out at the library.

[Don from Macomb, Illinois]

[Don from Macomb, Illinois]

About on more month till Steve Hodel's new book is out. Who is getting it?

Agape,
Don

[caprice06]

[quote="Don from Macomb, Illinois"][quote="caprice06"]I have read Steve Hodel's book, found it be repetitive about how evil his George Hodel was, how he had the same view as Count Marquis DeSade. I have it checked out at the library.[/quote]

What did DeSade do or think?

Agape,
Don[/quote]

Donatien Alphonse François, marquis de Sade-He is best known for his erotic novels, which combined philosophical discourse with pornography, depicting bizarre sexual fantasies with an emphasis on violence, criminality, and blasphemy against the Catholic Church.

[Don from Macomb, Illinois]

Dear Gang,
Has anyone bought Steve Hodel's new book, Most Evil? I just bought it today, and it seems like he is implicating his dad was the ZODIAC. What are your responses to this?

Agape,
Don

[ravenman71]

Waste of money. Total BS.

[Impy]

[ravenman71]

Its in the library. Between glancing over a few parts of the book and hearing what others are saying and what they've found to be incorrect, its not worth investing the time or money. The Zodiac connections are very far-fetched.

[Impy]

[startouched]

hello all,

I have been up for two days now reading and am totally hooked like you guys. So far, early in my own investigation, I have not yet ruled out Hodel, but from what i have read, there is not much indication that he knew Beth., which makes him less of a suspect in my eyes.

At this point, I am still sorting out the Ed Burns/George Murman/Maurice Clement connection. I have many questions yet to be answered.....

1) EB & BS checked into the Hirsh Apts as Mr & Ms Barnes?? EB asked the clerk to 'mark it down' ?? Was this ever verified?
2) Who owned the Hirsh Apartments?
3) Was there ever any evidence that abortions were being performed there?
4) I don't doubt that Ed Burns existed, as indicated by information provided in the FBI FOIA files; however, was there anything concrete ever found out about Maurice Clement?? Pictures of either of them or physical descriptions?

My working theory is close to that of the BDS theory minus all the crypto and mapping: The Black Dahlia killer was someone who knew Beth perhaps a bit more than some of the other men she associated with because they spent more time together. And that is to say, this man was enchanted with her (in today's terms we would call it being lovesick). He listened to her talk to hear her voice, and spent as much time with her as she would allow. She being a free spirit, went where chance took her, and yes, I believe that she used the influence she had on men to survive. In the case of the killer, his mental state was one that perhaps had been simmering for a long time. As reported by the profilers, he was maintaining a semi-normal lifestyle, and was perhaps suffering from what would be called "post traumatic stress syndrome' today. Beth's last tricky refusal unhinged him completely and set a string of plans and unimaginable details off that culminated in the brutal tableau that was no longer Elizabeth Short, but a canvas with their (EB & ES) relationship and mostly the things he had never been able to say to her when she was alive. I think that he was never caught because very much as Dr. Nash in a Beautifu Mind, his reality was crystal clear to him, and his "gray" personality made him invisible in plain sight.

Whew!!! I know that is a bit out there, but I think it fits....

Any thoughts???

[Impy]

I believe a Mr. and Mrs. Johnson were running The Hirsch. At the very least they're the ones that identified Elizabeth as being there.

[startouched]

Okay, more mad reading today leads to more questions, and please forgive me if I've missed this somewhere else in the forum......

Is there an explanation for the cement/manure bags found on the scene??

Was there no investigation by LAPD/DA on where those might have come from?

Does anyone know what the details are that were never released by LAPD/DA??

Sigh......

[Impy]

There hasn't been any official explanation for the cement bags. Speculation ranges from they were used to bring the body in to they possibly blew in from area construction.


2 and 3 can be answered with: There is no telling what LAPD investigated/unreleased details in the case file.

[startouched]

Impy and all,

I can't help but still ask to you and anyone who is watching this forum, where is the information on the investigation of the room that "Mr & Mrs Barnes" supposedly checked into at the Hirsh Apartments??? Did that lead go totally unsubstantiated?? Even if they could not identify the UNID'd man, there should have been an investigation of the room???

For everyone, true to the theme of this topic here is a theory IMO of why there wasn't a grand jury indictment issued for Beth Short's murderer/murderess:

And for those of you who say there wasn't an Edwin P. Burns, you are correct. The name was Edwin F. Burns, and according to Army records, he did exist, and he was married when he enlisted. His wife, Lillian and daughter Eloise, age 2, died on the same day in San Fernando, CA in eary 1945. He later married Vera Avis McClimans (possibly the infamous Vera in the BDS?) and they both died natural deaths in CA. I never really believed that if BDS Ed Burns was the killer that he committed suicide on March 15, 1947. I believe the note and clothes were left so that the Black Dahlia killer could die, and keep the potential LAPD/LA DA cover up complete, for whatever reason (and I have read several). Possibly and if you believe Hodel, the person who sent the messages and notes to the LA Times/other papers is the same person who wrote the suicide note. As in someone at the LA Times/other papers or LAPD. Pretty interesting to me that we never saw a copy of that note, only the text of the note (except in the BDS) as I remember. Don't that jus make u go hmmmm???

Logically, there can never be case closure to the Black Dahlia murder because there was NEVER a connection made (that was released and approved by the DA) between the victim, the crime scene/discovery site, suspect(s) and motive. And btw, being crazy or deranged is not a motive, it is a characteristic of a suspect (as in being 5'8", 150-160 lbs, walking with a limp) or an aggravating factor associated with a suspect.

If I have missed these elements in ANY of the solutions presented on this forum, on the web, or by any of the published authors, please let me know, so that I may stand corrected.

In the meantime, I like many others, will continue to search for that elusive connection.

And if I come off as being "too CSI", I reply "just the facts, ma'am"

[Impy]

Facts, in this case?

[brightpenny]

This may have been covered elsewhere but..

Did the cops ever check out Marilyn Monroe's associates? Like Charlie Chaplins son? Or is that connection just a rumor?

[startouched]

Impy,

Very early in my previous posting I mentioned that it was my theory and NOT a solution. I also asked for input, which means other ideas or soeculation.

Edwin F. Burns was located in Ancestory.com along with his wife Vera, his service record has previously been posted elsewhere in this forum. Lillian and Eloise Burns date of death was posted in a San Fernando CA newspaper archive. But you are right and I didn't think that this forum required "facts", based on information I see that has been provided in previous posts, i.e., theories submitted by Bethwatch and others. I never have declared that I am providing the "solution" or that this case has been solved by me or anyone else.

Conclusions can be drawn from any posting and investigations made by anyone reading these posts. That is what I have done, and I hope that readers will continue to do so. And hopefully, someone will come up with "facts" that will satisfy everyone. When that happens, the possibility of a case closure exists. Until then, we are all theorists and investigators.

[startouched]

brightpenny,

That is an angle I had not heard before. You may have posted it previously, but could you give me a synopsis?

[Impy]

[startouched]

Thanks for your reply Impy.....

Sorry if there was a misunderstanding......

I truly meant no harm....I look only for an exchange of information

In real life, I am just as blunt and opinionated as most, but I do tend to listen and absorb, and investigate what I hear.....I try not to attack

I've read through most of the postings, and I haven't seen your theory. Do you have one? Or have I missed it?

Peace????

[Karenbeth]

The Hirsh Apartments are still standing and from the looks of the outside, they have never been updated or remodeled. If Beth had actually been murdered in one of the rooms there, don't you think it would have been investigated at the time??