The Black Dahlia Message Boards

stereocrumb · Joined: 22 Sep 2006 Posts: 1174 Location: Michigan

"It is indeed possible and common for eyes to open after death, even if they were closed at the time of death. This is due to chemical changes occurring in the muscles within the first few hours, causing them to contract and stiffen. This process is called rigor mortis. Rigor mortis tends to affect the smallest muscles first, and then spread throughout the larger muscles. Typically, rigor is first apparent in the small muscles of the eyelids, then the lower jaw and neck, followed by the limbs. The muscles of the eyelids are called orbicularis oculi and levator palpebrae superioris. In life, orbicularis oculi is used to close the eyelids, while levator palpebrae superioris lifts the upper eyelid to open the eye. When rigor affects the levator muscles first, the eyelids open and the muscles stiffen. Thus, when rigor affects the orbicularis muscles shortly afterwards, the force of contraction they produce is not enough to overcome the stiffness of the levator muscles and the eyes remain open. Rigor mortis continues for a day or two and then the muscles soften as decomposition sets in."

(taken fron www.nurseminerva.co.uk)

Just thought that information would be of interest to people.

JAWS · Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:33 pm Post subject:

Nice research. That shuts ME up -- Laughing

JAWS · Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject:

BTW -- I just remembered that in SEVERED, JAW recounts to Gilmore about Beth's eyes being open in a dead stare, while she was in the bathtub, after being drained of blood.

stereocrumb · Joined: 22 Sep 2006 Posts: 1174 Location: Michigan

Yeah if you believe that Jack Anderson Wilson was there.

JAWS · Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:27 pm Post subject:

Or maybe he saw the morgue photos (through Gilmore?) before recounting that story.

Jam Tart · Joined: 01 Oct 2006 Posts: 331

That's an interesting possibility, JAWS. There so much murky room to manoeuvre in, where Gilmore and is sources are concerned.
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than you can understand.

stereocrumb · Joined: 22 Sep 2006 Posts: 1174 Location: Michigan

yeah I'll have to agree with Jam on that one.. Smile

and Jack anderson Wilson could've just made the story up just to get drinks out of Gilmore...J.A.W. did have a few drunk/intoxicated arrests on his rap sheet.

Nora Charles · Joined: 17 Dec 2006 Posts: 181

Suthernprog · Joined: 21 Feb 2007 Posts: 37 Location: Virginia

Suthernprog · Joined: 21 Feb 2007 Posts: 37 Location: Virginia

Suthernprog · Joined: 21 Feb 2007 Posts: 37 Location: Virginia

Hmm. She seemed worried and/or scared. When found, her hair had been dyed. Was this dying process something she could do herself, or did she go to a salon? Anyway, perhaps she was in disguise trying to leave LA, dyed hair and glasses, and was still wearing them when the first blow to the face dug them into her nose, and knocked her unconcious when she was kidnapped.

Prog
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Briar · Joined: 23 Sep 2006 Posts: 6281 Location: MHOville, Utah.

stereocrumb · Joined: 22 Sep 2006 Posts: 1174 Location: Michigan

sunglasses, would be a good explanation for the marks on her nose. nice idea,Prog.

JAWS · Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:29 pm Post subject:

I wonder if Newbarr, the autopsy surgeon, speculated on what might have caused those marks. I think Impy theorized once, that it looked like the bridge of her nose was grabbed and tweaked with a pair of pliers. That's what it looks like to me.

stereocrumb · Joined: 22 Sep 2006 Posts: 1174 Location: Michigan

I wouldn't rule out that possiblity. I think I said something about pliers once too. But if she was wearing aviator style sunglasses..the nose pads would probably leave marks had she been hit in the face with an object

BisectedBeauty · Joined: 04 Jul 2008 Posts: 18 Location: Femphis

Various tools I think or have thought responsible for her wounds
*butcher's knife (the mouth and torso cutting)
*scalpel (the criss cross slashes on her v)
*crowbar (the head gouges.)
*that farm tool that looks like giant sharp tongs
anyone familiar with farm equipment?
(the nose wounds)
...this list will likely grow the more I study the photos in depth.

wasgo · Joined: 03 Jun 2008 Posts: 591 Location: Seattle

slytherin88 · Joined: 24 Apr 2009 Posts: 2 Location: Utah

BurnsoutBright · Joined: 22 May 2009 Posts: 1

where is everyone seeing these pictures. I just started reading about all this and I'm not sure what to look at first. Everything is so sad
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Impy · Joined: 11 Sep 2006 Posts: 5442

Shouldn't be hard to find around the net.

JPS · Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 1:27 am Post subject:

.
I am amazed that the moderator couldn't do better than

Impy · Joined: 11 Sep 2006 Posts: 5442

Fair enough. I don't think the OP did any searching or they would have found the link on the front page, but whatever, i can indulge them.

The most graphic I've come across. This is probably what you're after. You have been warned.

http://poetry.rotten.com/black-dahlia/

Chrissie · Joined: 11 Aug 2009 Posts: 1

I have a theory about the wounds on her forehead - forgive me if it has been discussed before. The lesions on her forehead are jagged and in a circular configuration. These marks could be a result of a glass object being thrown at her face and the object shattering upon impact on her forehead. The object I suspect the most would be the bottom of a shotglass due to the size and shape of the lesion zone. The shattering glass would have fanned out, thus the unharmed area in the center. If one of the major causes of death was blood loss it is entirely possible the lesions on her forehead were the cause. If a vein had been severed there would have been major blood loss.

How I came up with this theory:
I have had a glass object thrown at my head, shattered upon impact, and had similar very lesions. I severed a vein and the doctor told me that one of the quickest ways to bleed to death is a head injury similar to mine.
My injuries were not in the same location as Elizabeth's - mine were close to my right temple - but the similarities between our lesions are shocking.

Now, why would a shotglass be thrown at her? Perhaps she got in a fight with someone, that person threw their drink at her and thus started the downward spiral.

Impy · Joined: 11 Sep 2006 Posts: 5442

I think it's feasible.

startouched · Joined: 05 Nov 2009 Posts: 11

Okay....here's my theroy on the tools used:

The majority of the cuts on the face, genitilia, and other superficial wounds were made with what we call and "exacto knife" not sure if a tiny scapel could make the same marks, but possibly....

The instrument that was used to stretch (sodomize) her anus was the same instrument that was used for blunt force trauma to her head and possible the killing blow. I am really surprised that the autopsy didn't reveal more about the items based the shape of the wounds to the head. Perhaps they didn't think about shaving her head in the wound areas?

I am not sure if I saw anywhere the exact demensions of the piece of skin that was removed and stuffed into the vagina, but I think I remember that being a large enough chunk to have fat attached.

As far as the cuts on the lips, I think that is significant to the killer. Perhaps the number of times she had "kissed" him without meaning?

Again, I think this killer had much time to spend with Beth for the postmortem activities. Once he actually had her under his control, (I read somewhere that possible those marks on the sides of the nostrils could have been made by glasses, perhaps he wanted her to "see" how she had rejected him) he may have killed her with blunt force more quickly than he wanted, but not before he sexually assaulted her. I suspect he struck her to quiet her, then proceeded with the torture to her face, then the sexual assault, then when he realized that she was dead, he took all the time he needed to tell his story on her body.

All this leads me to believe that a "set" of instruments was used. And, that the killer had time to plan this, probably going over how he would do it, how she would look, and how HE would feel.

Good grief, I am I morbid serial killer???? LOL